Foxeer Foxwhoop 25 HD - Naked Vista Nebula Pro Nano - XING 1404 3800kv

By wrong17 on Jul 17, 2022

12  679  16

The Build

I came a across a whoop that claims to be “unbreakable”, and it cost less than $30 shipped to my door. Why not give this Foxeer Foxwhoop 25 frame a try? You have a choice of 2 different colors, but I typically like to print all the parts myself. Unfortunately, this frame is still kind of new so there were not a much of a selection of parts to choose from on Thingiverse. But Foxxer was nice enough to provide source files for all the 3D printed parts for free. I was able to take what I could find on thingiverse and remix some models to create a camera mount that suited my application.

Recently I rebuilt the Cinelog 25 to reduce the excess weight and I plan to do the same with the Foxwhoop 25 build too. First, I will de case the Caddx Vista and pair it with a Nebula Pro Nano camera. I liked using 3D printed spacer to keep the Vista stacked nicely together. The bottom spacers are 2mm, middle is 4mm and the top are 1mm thick. Then I sandwich the camera cable with some foam, so it does not accidentally unplug. Make sure you plug in the inner cables firmly because for this build, it might have been slightly off because I thought I fired the Caddx Vista when it did not power up. Then I took it apart and put it back together, now it is working perfectly. I also swapped out the foam that holds down the camera cable with some double side tape (please note, that I did NOT remove the backing on the double side tape, it is used to create pressure on the plug and NOT stick anything together). When I took apart the Caddx Vista I notice the foam was very flat and did not give much pressure on the cable, so I switched it out to something firmer and heat resistant.

Also, the capacitor you see in the image gallery below shows a black rubycon capacitors (33uf 35v), but I had to switch it out to a smaller one (330uf 25v). The cap with sitting right on top of the uFl connector for the Caddx Vista.

I replaced the standard Caddx Vista antenna because the antenna because I happen to have a purple one that matches my team, so why not. Plus, it is a tad lighter too. The final weight of the quad ends up to be about 145 grams. I was hopping it would be under 140g but that did not happen. So, this quad is only 4g more than the Cinelog 25. The real question is how it will perform!

Test Flight

Unfortunately, I am getting a lot of vibrations in my FPV video feed. I guess the vibration dampeners does make a difference when comparing to a Cinelog 25. Another huge difference I noticed is the noise level. Even when I am using the same props the Foxwhoop is noticeable louder. Both quads have similar footprint and weight, so there is something about the Foxwhoop prop guards that is making it louder. I am also using the same exact PID tunes for both quads and they fly pretty much the same too. They both feel great in the air but the vibration in the FPV video is very annoying. I forgot to order set of the DAL 2530 props, so I have not tried them yet but so far, the props with the least amount of vibration are the HQ T63MMX6. The other props that I tried are the Gemfan D63 5 Blade and the iFlight Nazgul 2525, they both had lots of vibration in the video. The Gemfan D63 has the most thrust compared to all the props I tried but the vibration is very bad. I need to order a set of DAL 2530 props to see if it is any better.

Regardless the Betaflight version, I am getting lots of vibrations. However, I need to play around with BF 4.3 a little more because I have not gotten to how I like it yet. The tune in Betaflight version 4.2.9 feels great, this is also the same tune I have on the Cinelog 25.

Updates

July 18, 2022

I just placed an order for the DAL 2530 props from Pyrodrone. I truely hope it will fix all my vibration problems!

There is one more thing I notice that was different between the Cinelog 25 build and the Foxwhoop 25, it is the ESC firmware. I was using Bluejay v.16 48khz with the Cinelog 25, and BLheli_M 48khz with the Foxwhoop 25. When I flashed Bluejay to the Foxwhoop 25 I was curiouse to see how it would fly with 96khz, so that is what I tried first. With out a doubt, 96khz did not fix the vibration issue, it might have even made it worst. But I have to say, it felt very smooth and corners very well. It feels like I added a throttle curve to the rates and it was lacking a bit of power. Then when I change back to 48khz, the vibration was still there in the FPV video feed, it feels like I have better control and throttle responce.

Here is a food for thought. At one point I thought the vibration dampener for the FPV and HD camera mount on the Cinelog 25 was useless, so I did a test and see what happens if it was hard mounted. I created a 3D printed dampener ball that was stiff and printed with TPU. The results with those stiff mounts added jello and vibration to the FPV videos feed. It looks pretty much like how the Foxwhoop lookes like now. Then I switched back to the orginal rubber dampener and it still had some visible vibration in the FPV video. On this camera plate there were 5 rubber dampeners, so I removed one in the middle and to my surpise, it actually reduced the amount of vibration.

Gyro and Betaflight - July 19, 2022

It appears that most of the new flight controllers are using BMI-270 gyros, instead of the MPU6000 and that is a problem if you try to use the factory tunes. I wanted to try using the stock Betaflight tune from Foxeer, but it is not working well with the AIO FC (Diatone Mamba AIO F722 MK1 35A) because it uses a MPU6000 gyro and the Foxeer Reaper v2 is using a BMI-270 gyro. Just out of curiosity I wanted to see what would happen if I used the PID tune, Rates and Filter from Foxeer. That was a not good idea because it would just freak out and flip over. Then I tried adjusting the filters and I was able to get it fly, but it did not solve the vibration issue and the PID tune I used for the Cinelog 25 is still significantly better. So, I am going to go back to Betaflight 4.9.2 with the same Tune, Filters, and Rates I used with the Cinelog 25.

DAL Cyclone T2530 Props - July 23 2022

I finally got the new DAL Cyclone T2530 Props in the mail and here are the results after the first test flight. The HQ props are a little quieter and grips the air better, but the DAL is noticeably more efficient. It is kind of strange because I notice less vibration in the video with the Foxwhoop. But when I switch to the DAL props on my Cinelog 25, I got a little more vibration. So, I am getting opposite results with the DAL props. But for both quads, I am getting longer flight times. I will have to do more testing to to see what flight times the Foxwhoop frame will get.

No More Testing or Updates - Jul 24, 2022

The Foxeer FoxWhoop will be retired because there are no advantages other than the "unbreakable" prop guards. It weighs more, less efficient, cannot get rid of the vibration in the FPV video, and its loud. The Cinelog 25 flies the same but does all the things I just mentioned better, except the part when the props guards being "unbreakable." I guess, it depends on that is more important to you and that is how you should decide which frame will fit your needs.

I thought about creating a vibration dampening plate like the Cinelog 25 but the problem with that is the added weight. Currently the Foxwhoop weights a few grams more than the Cinelong 25 and with these size quads every gram of extra weight makes a difference. If you really need an unbreakable quad, then maybe the Foxwhoop frame is something you should look in to.

Videos

GoPro 7 - Naked - HQ T63MMX8 - Auline 850mah 4s

Same flight as above with DJI DVR view

New Videos

GoPro 7 - Naked - Testing out DAL Cyclone T2530 Props

DJI DVR - Testing out DAL Cyclone T2530 Props (notice the vibration in the video)

Photos

Discussion

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zacuge   4 days ago  

Hey James, do still have this whoop? I managed to tame the beast haha (or at least some progress).
I'm using a TBS Podracer AIO which was a mistake, I believe any better AIO is good so you can be aggressive with the filtering and PIDs.
First thing I found was when it's loaded, jello is totally lessened. So I tried to play around with filtering and PIDs and I am now happy with where it's at now.
I'm using 850mAh and GoPro Session(Hero 4), I am just waiting for my GPP Bones to arrive so I can finally test it properly.
I am also using an GR1404 3850kv motor from my old quad, and Gemfan 2540 props(not new), which both contributed to the overall vibration.
I find jello/jitter/vibrations are mostly at just above hover throttle(without GP). So when quad is loaded, motor spins faster, hence smoothing out the vibration.
Will try a lower pitch prop next time.

Show 1 more comment
zacuge   4 days ago 

I don't know exact model name as they are used props and came with the lot I bought recently. But its definitely a 2540 version of Gemfan WinDancer 3052. They look exactly the same.
I plan to cut down a 5125 prop and make the guards as ducts next week. Will see what will happen - higher rpm due to lower pitch, more thrust due to props being closer to guards.
I have no plan of opening them again so its the same AIO, just a pain to work on, but I do like the crsf nano directly soldered to it.

zacuge   4 days ago 

I am tempted to convert it to analog to save weight. It's happy with GP 4(which is the same weight of GP10 Bones that I am waiting). Full GP 6 is just too heavy. So if I lose the digital, and lesser weight of GP bones, I could use 1000mah for more time.

zacuge   23 hours ago 

Hey James, still have the issues. Here's what I found, the quad likes it when the weight is biased to either front or rear, not dead center. Jello is at worst when I use a bigger battery without a camera on. I suspect the quad is seesawing when the heaviest load is at dead center hence vibration/jello. I think I need a new and better motor.

But you could try these on your next build. Use a bigger motor or one with the lowest kv. Small motors are designed to spin fast(and high kv), so they have low torque, they can't handle heavy load. Either they are stressed mechanically or could not keep up with esc commands. Using a bigger motors with low kv gives you more torque, so better control at lower rpm.

What do you think?

georgesw   13 days ago  

Hey James, thanks so much for these builds you do! If you were to recommend only one of your cinewhoop builds to get parts for today, which would you recommend? The Slammed Squirt v2.1 HD 6s - 2205 2300kv - Caddx Vista?

Show 5 more comments
wrong17   11 days ago 

No Problem, good luck with your builds. Let me know if you have anymore questions. As for the Cinelog 35, that was the most difficult one to fly indoors. Plus, it is loudest so it is kind of intimidating. Check this out, I just finished this last night and did my first test flight right now: https://rotorbuilds.com/build/30081

georgesw   9 days ago 

Hey James, how are you liking this latest new build compared to the original 2205 2300kv squirt you liked?

wrong17   9 days ago 

I had a few other people built this same quad as I did with the 2205 2300KV motors and had trouble when using the same tune that I have on it. They were telling me that the motors are running hot and etc. So, I wanted to build another one with the same motors but different stack setup and see if I run in to the same problems. So, to answer your question...both builds feel the same. I did back-to-back flights between the quads and they both are practically identical.

Jelmer Hemstra   Jul 18, 2022  

Great build I built one too only thing i suggest is to put the usb in the cam mount (check out my build it has that).

wrong17   Jul 18, 2022 

Thanks for the tip, I only left the USB plug out during my test because I will need to plug it in a lot to make changes to the settings. But after I am done, will be sure to tuck that plug away.

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